but that’s old stories, today PHP community is much more moving forward and doing what Java communities does, we can see born of many PHP application framework, CI, CakePHP, PRADO, Zend Framework which developed in pragmatic way (design pattern, TDD, etc..) in fact today PHP programmer has wider application framework to choose rather than Ruby or Java Developer.

For me as developer, only one thing left : client needs, sure I will choose PHP for fast and easy development and maintenance (Since I was come from PHP), but sometime when a client want Java, I will use Java to build it.

Another thing is development tools (libraries, IDE etc), Java is the winner on this (Eclipse, Maven, ready to use Libraries…etc..) but for today PHP programer there are PHP-Java bridge module to use, when you need PHP-Java integration, in otherside, there are PHP interpreter/compiler that build on top of Java virtual machine (Caucho resin etc..) for Java developer to taste PHP.

My conclusion is (at least for my self ):

first, keep the ‘Use right tools for right job’ mantra (are we gonna use springs framework for building a static website ?)

second, go ahead build some new language, some new framework etc… because if there are only one programming used in this whole world, then we are in really in big problem ( I just don’t wanna back to an era when micro$oft rules our world… ).
As long as we understand the foundation (say it : OOP, design pattern, TDD, DDD, etc…) learning new language syntax is not that hard, wrong ?

PS: for Ruby/Rails developer, pssstt… be quite… and lets move together….

My personal opinion, the Java coders usually over engineer anything to everything which makes code base unreasonably complicated and difficult to enhance further. May be the reason being most of the Java engg. do not have computer science back ground, it doesn’t mean guy with CS background can be a good coder than the one without, but on an avg. the interview I have taken so far, I find CS guys have better understanding of how to write better code.

Also, if you are an organization then you need to evaluate the pros-cons in terms of cost and turn around time. Which can get really high if you do web development in Java

For web development I think PHP is the best choice, in terms of reducing cost - hardware, development cost, development turn around time, enhancements and maintenance.

I have worked as lead engg. in Yahoo, Paypal, ebay, BoA and bunch of financial companies, and have my own startups and I really think technology wise (never management wise) you should follow what Yahoo does - PHP for web development and without developing any framework, and avoid Java as much as you can.

Java is a more “all-round” language, and is a good choice for example if you were in a controlled environment and require programming in the client, on the server, and even in the background running tasks.

The number of frameworks is not really important - PHP has its own share of frameworks as well, some of which are also MVC. MVC has nothing to do with the language, so that’s not really a pro-Java argument.

PHP is well-capable of handling more than just a contact form or registration form… I fail to see what Java can do that PHP can’t, in the context of data handling and customer sensitivity. If you really think that PHP cannot be trusted to handle large sites, then I think you should avoid using Facebook, Yahoo, Wikipedia, Flickr, etc.

As I said earlier, scalability and security are not inherent in the language you choose - good programs are written by good programmers.

In my opinion a decision must take into account security and scalability. Java is not just servlets and JSP. EJBs are an essential feature of Java. Also, with frameworks like Struts, Java ServerFaces, Hybernate, Velocity, things look pretty much in favor for Java for any serious developers. Finally, strong application architecture requires separation between business logic and user interfaces. Java offers this at several layers, starting from java beans, all the way to a full MVC architecture (e.g. struts) or again, EJBs.

In conclusion, and without offending anyone, we are comparing apples and oranges! If you are to design a simple web app with a contact us form and perhaps a registration form, then PHP will to the trick, but for any other app where customer sensitive info or a large number of transactions is handleded, then JAVA is the way to go!!!

Regards,
Rob.

As you know, PHP has no place on the client-side anyway, so there is no comparison to be made.

However, that is not to say that Java has any place in a browser either! A look at some articles shows that Flash is more available than Java, and that Java is not appropriate for most cases where a client-side language is needed.

The one use-case I can think of where Java would dominate client-side is in interaction with the hardware of the machine. File-editing, encryption using hardware-based fobs, etc, cannot be done in Flash (as far as I know) and definitely not JavaScript. It’s difficult even in Java, and requires knowledge of security-signatures, so is not for the faint-of-heart. Even here, though, it’s funny that the only Java you should ever write for a client is when something security-based (and therefore intricate and complex) is needed. This means that you should only write Java on the client if you are an expert and able to confidently state that your programs are secure.

I didn’t see that you had made a comment on the client-server argument of Java over PHP. Now, I am relatively new to both languages, but definately see that there may be issues with trying to write a thin/think client in PHP as where Java seem to be well equipped to do so–given its message-driven been architecture. So there is an example where Java should be decided on over PHP. However, you did cover yourself by saying that you wouldn’t use Java for web development.

I was actually shocked to see how easy it was to have a data driven page in PHP, and am STILL learning how to do the same thing in Java. I suspect I will be spending a lot more time understanding the concepts of data-driven applications in Java. In that regard for small - medium sites, I can’t see Java as a good choice for developemnt of web applications.

Thank you again for your article!!!

To be honest, I believe these rumours are based on two facts:
1. there were security problems in earlier (PHP3, PHP4) versions and some people have not bothered updating their facts to see those problems have been fixed already in PHP5 and PHP6
2. a lot of the perceived problems are problems with programmers - not the language. Because PHP is such an easy language to learn, it can be a tempting entry language for some very bad programmers who simply could not be bothered with secure programming.

As long as you are a good programmer and aware of problems such as SQL injections, etc, you will do fine. These problems exist in all languages, including Java. PHP is more permissive, though, and will let you make your mistakes.

the pros and cons are really out of my scope - personally, I like PHP for its ease of use in contrast to Java’s unfriendliness and strictness. On the other hand, I kind of like that Java forces you to be “type-safe”, but then again, I like that PHP lets you type-cast variables easily if you want to.

Which language you use is really up to you. I can only offer my own opinion - PHP is safe and fast to work in if you are an attentive programmer, and Java is an annoying brute of a language which i would not ask /anyone/ to use for web development.

What are the biggest pros and cons of each language?

Sorry for all the newbie questions.

The speed issue only arises when you are building large (very busy) websites. This is usually not the case, so speed is not usually an issue.

A beginner programmer will not be asked to write the next Wikipedia (which is written in PHP, by the way), so there are a few years of development where you can safely use whatever language you want - it’s not a crucial choice.

That being said, I don’t recommend using Java for web development - especially when coming from a static design background. Java is too much of a contextual shift - you (and anyone else, for that matter) would be overwhelmed with the statrling difference in approach.

PHP, however, is designed as an embedded language. You can start off by writing your web site as usual and just popping in a small bit of PHP wherever it makes sense. This is the opposite of Java, where Java involves writing the entire site with Java in mind (a very anti-intuitive approach, when you are doing small websites).

I’m about as brand-spanking as they get to all of this, and am really trying to figure out a few things. I’ve rounded the corner from designer to developer, and I’ve picked up a book on psp, trying to sound it out. I had believed that the major differences ‘tween java and psp were the client vs server ones, yet I now find that speed is also a consideration? given that what I am intending to do is (at least for now) fairly basic dynamic pages, is there any reason I should consider java? also, how different are they? should I attempt to learn them simultaneously?

I currently teach fireworks, photoshop and dreamweaver, so I know my way around both a keyboard and a mouse, so to speak….